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03/20/2008: "Border Chief Responds To Council & Public"

If the County Council members expected anything of substance to come out of asking Border Patrol Assistant Chief Agent Joseph W. Giuliano to come to Friday Harbor and field questions from the Council, and an overflow of members of the public, they may have ended up disappointed.

Council Chairman Howard Rosenfeld said after Giuliano had made his opening remarks, the public could then address the Chair with testimony and questions, and to not repeat testimony that had already been given.

Once Giuliano gave the legal basis for the spot checks, and explained how and why they were being accomplished, the public was allowed to speak -at least initially- for two minutes. Two of the speakers said they had no objection to the checks, and the rest of the 23 spoke against them. Giuliano was told that the stops were illegal, unconstitutional, and unnecessary, and the speakers did not like them.

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The crowd had filled the council meeting room, then the so-called overflow room where they could watch the action on a closed circuit TV sent in from the main room, but there was still no room for the many who stood outside on the sidewalk .

Rosenfeld did allow repetitions testimony, but without exception the public was, while firm and resolute in their testimony, continually polite and respectful to Giuliano.

Councilman Gene Knapp said one of the reasons the US Supreme Court had upheld the right of the Border Patrol to conduct spot checks was that “it was obviously effective, since they had detained 17,000 illegal aliens in one year,” but he wondered if the Patrol’s efforts here were worth it, given only 24 had been detained in Anacortes.

Giuliano responded that there are mass migrations across the southern borders, but the dangers and threats are the same here, even if the numbers are less. Giuliano said the goal of the stops is to catch illegal aliens that are here to do harm to the country, but if the agents find anyone who is here illegally, even if they have come only for work, or seeking a better life, the agents cannot turn a blind eye to their illegally, and they must detain them.

Giuliano said agents cannot ask for identification, such as a drivers license, or a passport, from a U.S. citizen. the only provision the law makes, he said, is that if asked “you have to convince (the agent) that you are not an alien unlawfully in the United States.”

Councilman Alan Lichter asked him to explain “how this all works.” Giuliano said “it is an imperfect process,; there are people that get though that shouldn’t, and people that are inquired further, that problem should not have to be”, but that in most cases conversation will not happen unless there is some reason for an agent to suspect that that the person may not be a U.S, citizen.

Councilman Rosenfeld told Giuliano “there is a lot of passion in this community and there is a possibility for civil disobedience,” and he asked how Giuliano would “handle that?”

Giuliano calmly responded “civil disobedience?” He paused a few beats, then added “from what I’ve heard here today, I think people are working intellectually rather than physically on this issue, and I think that is the way it ought to be.” He added that “as long as we continue to get together on issues and discuss them”, he would hope that Rosenfeld’s concern of civil disobedience would “remain a far fetched contingency…that is speculative, and I don’t think we need to have a contingency plan for that.. I don’t think this community is cut that way.”

Rosenfeld also said that a personal thing for him “is the way these things are conducted; people with guns are containing you within chain link fences, it’s kind of draconian.”

He then raised his voice and said “you already have guns, and yet you got to be in cages, and it seems like overkill, and it generates a backlash amongst a lot of people. And an unintended consequence -and we have already seen it with the Okalahoma bomb, when people become so disaffected -we start generating home grown terrorists.” Rosenfeld ended by emotionally stating “lighten up a little bit!”

Council Member Bob Myhr said he wondered if the spot checks were being done in Anacortes because there was already a facility there that is used for the international ferry runs.

Giuliano said the area they used was there when they arrived, it belonged to WSF. He also said there will be other ferry terminals that will be subject to spot checks. As for the guns, he said they are required to carry them, but hopefully there will never be a need for them.

After everyone on the list had spoken, the council left to have lunch, leaving only one person to keep an eye the proceedings. Giuliano stayed put through lunch, and some new, plus some previous speakers, continued to both lecture and ask questions of him.

Town Councilman Kelly Balcomb-Bartok told Giuliano the effect of the delays on the economy was of great importance to the community; and repeated Councilman Ranker’s concern that if tourists think they may be spot checked, they may choose not to come here.

Giuliano said he was not going to sugar coat it, that the spot checks would continue for some time, but not on a regular basis, but they could not predict when they could limit the frequency, that it was based on how effective the checks were as a deterrent to illegal entry attempts.

One man asked “what will you do to me, if the next time I refuse to stop and answer questions?” Giuliano again explained the law, but the man said “what will you do to me personally if I failed to stop when told to do so?“ Giuliano said “that would be a felony, and you will be arrested.”

A statement instructive to the value of the meeting was when Giuliano said “one of the greatest drivers of the deterrent effect, is media exposure, and exposure to the pubic by forums like this, where questions are asked, and it becomes a widely know issue.”

Add that to the opportunity the Council and the public had to ask questions and state their concerns, and Giuliano having an opportunity to understand those concerns, and explain why the spot checks are being done, then perhaps the meeting was productive for both sides.